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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:32 pm
Agreed, with one addendum: Women's status was low to none in almost all societies. The West started addressing that issue in a meaningful way only after the Enlightenment, and even then reluctantly and tardily.
I take issue
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:50 am
Thank you so very much
for ripping to shreds the Spartan society. Although they were not so much versed in the arts and culture of the Athenian city state at least they were considered the masters of military strategy many times sourced by Roman generals. I do not wear blinders and am very much aware of their proclivities toward male/male relationships, the almost masochistic training and distain for less rigorous pursuits but it is still a society I admire. Coming from a military family with uncles and cousins in all branches of the Armed Forces, the gruesome grit and victorious valor never failed to fill my heart with pride. I will not go head to head with Athena, who is the Greek expert here with facts and figures but I will continue to defend their warrior lifestyle. My comment on a film having political ramifications was misconstrued. I meant politics in the present not the past. I agree with Athena that had Darius or his son Xerxes won any of the historic battles (Marathan, Thermopylae, Salamis or Plataea) the future of Greece and the immediate present of Western civilization might have been very different.
My father was a great admirer of discipline, duty, education, structure, truthfulness, self-defense and honor. However, although he provided most of the above, my mother was the disciplinarian. We never marched lock step but there was a pretty rigid set of rules we had to follow and corporal punishment was not out of the question when provoked.
I will now get off my soapbox and formulate my assessment of the film “300” at a later time. But just as I suspected, it was definitely a clone of the Frank Miller graphic novel.
Mildly Miffed Marie
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:50 am
Agreed, with one addendum: Women's status was low to none in almost all societies.
One glaring exception to this being Ancient Egypian society (which was later considered immoral by the Greek historians). Women then had the same social standing as nineteenth century women and a number of other liberties those of later generations would have never dreamed of.
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:57 am
rocketscientist wrote:One glaring exception to this being Ancient Egypian society (which was later considered immoral by the Greek historians). Women then had the same social standing as nineteenth century women and a number of other liberties those of later generations would have never dreamed of.
True! The other glaring exception in that part of the world was Minoan Crete. In all their frescoes, the women are shown as more prominent than the men -- or doing the same tasks, as in the Bull Leaping fresco. Also, the women of Ionia and Aeolia (Asia Minor and the islands near it) were significantly better off than the women of mainland Greece, producing politicians, philosophers and artists of the stature of Sappho and Artemisia (one of Xerxes' admirals in the battle of Salamis).
Too, it seems that women of the Celts had enviable status, not only becoming queens in their own right, but owning their own property, having the right to divorce, participating in councils, etc. Ditto for several Native American nations, most prominently the Iroquois.
Re: I take issue
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:25 pm
Marie wrote: I do not wear blinders and am very much aware of their proclivities toward male/male relationships
What I find funny--sort of--is the contrasting attitudes towards homosexuality and military life in different societies:
Modern American: Can't have a military with it!
Ancient Sparta (and others): Can't have a military without it*!
*I've simplified of course.
Re: I take issue
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:46 pm
caliban wrote:I've simplified of course.
Though not by much! (*laughs*)